The Skin's Microbiome
Find out more about WISH Skin Health HERE
Book a free Discovery Call with me to learn more about my 1:1 coaching program. It's a no
pressure call where I learn about your business and we decide if we're a good fit to work together. Click here.
Want to work with me? Learn more here.
Get the formula for making 100k in Revenue for FREE here.
Follow me on Instagram: @esthetician.coach
David Valenzuela, founder of WISH Skin Health, shares his journey in the beauty industry and the importance of microbiome health. He discusses the challenges faced during the pandemic and the creation of Wish's education platform. David explains the concept of the topical microbiome and its relationship to various skin conditions. He emphasizes the role of barrier function and lipids in maintaining a healthy microbiome. David also highlights the impact of microbiome on aging and the use of benzoyl peroxide and antioxidants in skincare. The conversation delves into the complexity of the microbiome ecosystem. In this conversation, David Valenzuela discusses various topics related to skincare and the microbiome. He emphasizes the dangers of following trends and highlights the importance of vitamin C in skincare. David also explores the relationship between gut health and skin, as well as the impact of cleansing on the microbiome. He discusses the need to balance moisture and treat acne effectively, while cautioning against the limitations of popular acne treatment brands. Additionally, David explains the importance of barrier repair and introduces the concept of probiotics in skincare. He concludes by discussing the misconceptions surrounding chemical peels and the lack of a clear definition for sensitive skin. In this conversation, David Valenzuela discusses various topics related to skincare, including sensitive skin, the importance of gentle skincare, the truth about sulfates, proper product usage for acne, the controversy of topical stem cells, the science behind stem cells, research and education in the aesthetic community, the importance of microbiome health, confidence, and intelligent aging. He emphasizes the need for research and education in the industry and encourages individuals to make informed decisions based on scientific evidence.
Takeaways:
- Avoid following skincare trends blindly and focus on proven ingredients and treatments.
- Vitamin C is a beneficial ingredient in skincare, promoting collagen production and providing antioxidant protection.
- The health of the gut microbiome is directly related to overall wellbeing, including mental health and immune function.
- Cleansing and other skincare practices can disrupt the skin's microbiome, so it's important to support its health.
- Balancing moisture and treating acne effectively requires a personalized approach.
- Barrier repair and the use of probiotics in skincare can promote a healthy microbiome and improve skin health.
- Adversity mimetics, such as chemical peels, can stimulate the skin's healing process, but should be used with caution.
- The definition of sensitive skin is not clearly defined in the dermatology field. Sensitive skin can be caused by over-cleansing, over-exfoliating, or sensitizing the skin, while sensitized skin is reactive to various products.
- Gentle skincare is essential for maintaining healthy skin and preventing damage.
Sulfates are not inherently bad, but their overuse in high percentages can lead to dryness and damage to the skin. - Proper product usage is crucial for treating acne effectively, and more is not always better.
- The use of topical stem cells in skincare is controversial, and the research behind their efficacy is still inconclusive.
- Research and education are essential in the aesthetic community to make informed decisions and provide effective treatments.
- Microbiome health plays a significant role in overall skin health, and supporting it can help prevent various skin conditions.
- Confidence and intelligent aging should be the focus of skincare, rather than trying to reverse the aging process.
- Continued research and education are necessary to stay updated with the latest advancements and best practices in the skincare industry.
Transcript
Brittany (00:00.92)
Hi David, welcome so much to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.
David Valenzuela (00:06.006)
Hi, Brittany. I know it's a long time in the making. I'm super happy to be here.
Brittany (00:11.611)
I know those of you who listen to my podcast know I invite people to be my podcast and then a year later They actually I get them on so that's kind of what happened here Thanks for your patience
David Valenzuela (00:20.854)
It's all right, you know, planes, trains, automobiles, time zones, you know, we have to, there's a lot of schedules at work and we always figure it out.
Brittany (00:28.628)
Yeah, it's really early for where you are, so I really appreciate that. Okay, so tell us a little bit about how you, about your backstory, and then I wanna hear more about the microbiome, and like I know that's a core focus of your brand. So just tell us a little bit about yourself.
David Valenzuela (00:32.075)
It's alright.
David Valenzuela (00:45.178)
Yes. So for those of you that don't know me, my name is David Valenzuela. I founded a company called Wish in 2018. And but I'll give you a little bit of the backstory, Brittany, as to how we actually came to be how this actually came to be because it's I'll give you the CNN Cliff Note version because I've been around for a minute. I started my career actually with Aveda. Back in the day when nobody knew what Aveda was, people call it a Vita and stuff. And it was like
Brittany (01:03.416)
laughs
Brittany (01:08.075)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (01:13.686)
the first entry into the professional channel that was actually paying attention to estheticians, hairdressers, nail technicians to the health of the what technicians were working with all day. So anyone that's ever used innovative product, you know, it's primarily known for hair care now. And it is we were all about essential oils and just a very holistic approach to hairdressing. But here's the funny story funny story about my career with Aveda.
Brittany (01:23.212)
Two.
David Valenzuela (01:42.018)
You know, this is before technology, Brittany. So we didn't, there was no social media. We didn't have laptops. There was no email, which sounds archaic at this point. What? So we had to, we had to do in-person trainings, right? We would go to LA. I was in training for three weeks. I had to learn how to perm hair. We had to learn the lymphatic system. We had to learn how to give an evade a massage. We were also, we're based in Palm Springs. So this is when my first territory was out here.
Brittany (02:08.916)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (02:09.078)
And I had we had a lot of people that had Vichy showers. So I had to understand and learn how to do a Vichy shower treatment and like what that meant. You were going to be soaking wet, we're wearing bathing suits and effleurage massage with this assault scrub. You know, it was just I had to learn how to do it. Like that was our that was literally how we communicated the message of Aveda. So that was the first 10 years of my career. And I kept it was a very interesting time, Brittany, because it was a lot of firsts for me.
It was, I was the youngest person to get promoted into a regional position. And at this point, through the 10, through the decade, Aveda was acquired by SA Lauder and it was the first acquisition of SA Lauder into the professional space. So it's very interesting. So through that tenure, like I got to run a full service salon in Palo Alto. Um, 48 service providers. That was like, it was a pandemonium whole nother podcast for that.
Brittany (02:48.565)
Okay.
Brittany (02:53.656)
Hmm
David Valenzuela (03:05.93)
But I did every position started in Southern California, moved to the Central coast, ended up being in San Francisco, managing Washington, Oregon, Northern California and Hawaii, which is, you know, it's a small world because now we have one of our original Aveda accounts back in like early 2000s is now a significant wish account in 2024 on a Wahoo. So
It's a full Spectre moment. So I, so then cut to my Dermalogica. We were, there was a, it was called the business. What was it called back then? It's changed names. Oh my God. It'll come to me in a second. See, it's too early. My caffeine needs to kick in still. Um, there was a, oh, it's called TSA. The Salon Association was hosting event in San Francisco. We were, Aveda was a big sponsor. So we're sitting there at this event. It was, you know.
Brittany (03:47.781)
I know. You need more tea.
Brittany (03:54.34)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (03:59.018)
hair. It was Bumble and Bumble. Aveda was there. But the thing that was most fascinating was there were founders of brands. So Michael, my I think his name is Michael Gordon, who founded Bumble and Bumble. There was is her name Jane. There's the girl that founded Creative Nail. She was speaking. I'm gonna mess her name up. Sorry, you guys, if you're listening, you know who I'm talking about. There was Jane were one she was the she was the keynote speaker that closed out the presentation and
Brittany (04:20.379)
Hehehehe
David Valenzuela (04:26.638)
If you've ever seen Jane speak, she is dynamic and it was just so great. So I'm looking at my coworkers, there was like four of us in a row with a beta saying, you guys, that's why I'm in the industry. She was so inspiring and she, you know, it's still a private company at this point. So I made a couple phone calls. I was just asking questions, turned into an interview, turned into a job offer. And that became my transition into Dermalogica in 2005. I mean, I know, right? So
2005, that's what brought me from my first time moving from San Francisco to Atlanta, managed the Eastern Seaboard. At some point in my tenure with Aveda, I managed every knick and cranny of the United States, reorganizations, all of it. But I had always been so fascinated with skin and being with Dermalogica, it was like, that's all we did. We weren't doing makeup, we weren't doing hair care, we weren't doing perms. And like we were, we did launch some body stuff over the time period, but it was focused. So that was seven years.
I got recruited by a little company, which I didn't know, Brittany, at this time, like anything about venture capital money, equity firms, any of that. But it was a company that actually funded Tesla.
Brittany (05:37.912)
Oh!
David Valenzuela (05:40.13)
So there, I'm looking at their portfolio one day, like they flew in to interview me, these guys in suits. I had no idea who these, what they were doing. I'm like, what is this? I've just been private company, don't know. And a couple of weeks ago, I was watching a documentary about Elon Musk, and there was the CEO of that company who's really friends with Elon. And I was like, I didn't even know what I was getting involved with. SpaceX was in their portfolio. They owned a lot of restaurants in Utah.
Brittany (05:50.934)
Yeah!
David Valenzuela (06:08.182)
but they didn't have anything in the aesthetic space. So that was five years with the brand called Cosmetics. That's where I, you know Cosmetics, it's actually based in Atlanta. So my reformulating the products, repackaging the products, rebranding the products, hiring an entire sales and education team, managing global distribution. Like I was in a suitcase, basically lived out of my suitcase for five years, but that was great. And then as you know, my last role in the corporate world was for CEO as face for face reality, all things acne.
Brittany (06:14.612)
Yeah.
Brittany (06:37.823)
Yes. So then wish came about. So tell me what came about.
David Valenzuela (06:42.042)
Yes, yes. So the I'll tell you how it started. It was an idea way back in the day when I worked for a beta actually, I said, you know what, someday, I'm going to own a skincare brand. And so you guys, when you're thinking about the progression of your careers, and you're in a treatment room, you're listening to this, like, I want to get to x, just think about how long this actually I had this moment, I had like a lucid dream that I was going to own a brand called wish. So weird. I don't know. I wrote it down to my little at the time Franklin Kirby day planner.
Brittany (07:12.012)
Wow.
David Valenzuela (07:12.458)
Um, 2018. So we started as consultancy. So I had to like wrap my head around what it's going to take the, the misconception, Brittany, about what it actually costs to actually start a brand, formulate a brand, package a brand. Nobody truly understands it. And I, I don't, I'm not saying people shouldn't do it. I'm saying if you, if you are going to do it, you really need to have a, a really
Brittany (07:33.738)
Hehehehe
David Valenzuela (07:38.546)
under thorough understanding of the timing that it takes to formulate a product from scratch, the contract manufacturing method, all of that, because it's no small undertaking. But I was I just started helping esthetician. So I wasn't really sure. And I really, I've been working Britney since I was 12 years old. So I've always been like I was the kingpin babysitter as a little kid, everybody wanted me to babysit for them. I was very, very tall as a kid, everyone I was just very mature and very independent. And like, that was just my jam.
Brittany (07:46.078)
of it.
Brittany (08:07.841)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (08:07.922)
So I really was like, I'm going to take some time off because I haven't really had any time off in my adult life. So 2018, 2019, I was doing a little consulting, helping people develop some products, um, which was percolating in the background, uh, about mid 2018. I was like, need to start formulating knowing that it's going to take this much time back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, stability, compatibility. Um,
Brittany (08:13.557)
Yeah.
Brittany (08:24.506)
Hmm?
David Valenzuela (08:34.774)
20. So then my first round of labels arrived the day that the world shut down from the pandemic. It was it was March 13. I'll never forget it all my labels have showed up all my packaging has already rolled up the semis have rolled up like all of that and I realized you know what I don't have any control over this. And it was a very you know, I know everybody talks about gaining weight. It was the first time Brittany my life that I didn't know I could gain 30 pounds in a little over a month.
Brittany (08:52.962)
No.
David Valenzuela (09:03.582)
I didn't know it was even possible. I realized now looking back that watching the news incessantly and eating Marie Callender's pot pies and drinking Coke and just staring at the TV all day, it was the first time in my life that I didn't have access to exercise because the gyms were all closed. I could walk my dogs, but everyone was afraid of people and we were like, are we all going to die? After I caught my snap, so to speak, in that moment, I was like, you know what? We have to focus.
Brittany (09:03.692)
Oh.
Brittany (09:17.285)
Oh, uh-huh. Right?
Brittany (09:24.888)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (09:33.01)
Even the labs, even everything that was going on in the professional space in our industry, as you know, you know, even in Northern California, Fremont, like their salons were closed for nine months. People couldn't practice. Like it was a moment in time. So I had the formulations we were working on. It was very, very slow. Uh, labs had protocols of somebody sneeze or somebody coughed, um, during like the production, they would have to shut down the entire lab and then everybody would have to be.
Brittany (09:42.552)
Oh yeah.
David Valenzuela (10:01.974)
rapid COVID tested. So the production was just crazy. So I actually finished my degree during the pandemic.
Brittany (10:11.373)
Oh!
David Valenzuela (10:12.622)
Totally random, right? Totally random. It was something that I wanted to do and I had to like figure out how to catch like what was gonna be, what am I gonna focus on because I don't have control over anything else. So I finished my degree in business. I have a bachelor's of science degree in marketing, which was always fascinating to me. And I just really wanted to get that done. So October, 2020, cut back to the beginning of my career. I was in community college when the opportunity with Aveda came up.
Brittany (10:30.086)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (10:39.71)
And so I had to drop out of community college to start my career with Aveda. Didn't know that was going to be a decade. Didn't know that, you know, we don't know how right what's going on. So I finished that. But as I'm going through the program, all universities had to ship to an electronic platform, right? Because no one was doing in-person learning. I'm looking at it and I'm going, you know what our industry, the aesthetic community needs to have a space to be able to learn like this.
Brittany (10:55.416)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (11:06.058)
You're a mom, people are busy, they're doing treatments, they're running a, you know, everyone's got lives and dogs and kids and like things, life is crazy. And nobody has really the time now as a working adult to go sit in a brick and mortar location for multiple times per week. So if you need to flip your laptop open at 10 30, when your kids are asleep and like learn something, that's what I wanted to create. So I actually used a platform from the university to put our wishes education onto it.
so that it would be user guided, go at your own pace, speed it up, slow it down, pick show up exactly where you left off, interactive quizzes, you know, all the things that are learning. And I found out actually, my learning style, I would actually go and do some pre quiz stuff first and get an idea for what I was going to actually be required to learn.
Brittany (11:46.766)
Yeah.
Brittany (11:56.49)
Okay.
Brittany (12:01.572)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (12:01.99)
And for me, you know, everyone is different. Some people are visual learners. Some people are audio learners. So you can read the captions if you want, you can listen to the audio if you want, like whatever's your best learning style. But I understood through that program that this was going to be something that the professional community needed. And, you know, it's an investment. I mean, Stanford uses it. Um, a lot of really prestigious institutions use the platform. So it's like, all right.
Brittany (12:14.148)
Okay.
Brittany (12:21.315)
Yeah.
Brittany (12:29.156)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (12:30.014)
If it's good enough for them, then it's definitely good enough for the aesthetic community.
Brittany (12:33.732)
Absolutely, absolutely.
David Valenzuela (12:38.494)
So I was gonna say, so that actually turned into, so as I was coming out of face to reality and looking at what was happening in dermatology, so you guys, the premise behind Wiskin Health is microbiome health and we're gonna, Brittany and I are gonna talk about this because it is very fascinating about what's happening. It is not a trend, it's not going away, it's part of the human body.
Brittany (12:38.508)
So you just, yeah, go ahead.
David Valenzuela (13:06.47)
Most people understand microbiome health. We've heard most about it through the gut health, through gut health, talking about having a healthy microbiome. And what we've learned, Brittany, and there's a lot of education around microbiome health in the industry today. I interviewed Katie Marshall with Acne MBK Detective, which is a very thorough program on gut health. And we understand, you know, people understand the word inflammation now. They understand
you know, a diversity in diet, but I don't think people really get that your topical microbiome, you have an ecosystem of bacteria, fungi, yeast, it's all it sounds disgusting because you're like, wait, what? Well, this is all living on my face in my hair and my nail, like, wait, what? But you guys, the we went through this whole period of time for those that have been around for a while where we're like, oh, my god, hand sanitizer, we have to clean everything, get the germs away, get the germs away.
Brittany (13:47.331)
Hahahaha
Is not. Yeah.
David Valenzuela (14:04.286)
And the reality is, is that your immune system is built off exposure to bacteria and viruses. That's how you build a healthy, robust immune system. We there's been studies with kids about, you know, keeping the environment super, super clean. Cause we know, I know you, I know you have a little one. Um, you know, preschools, elementary schools are like Petri dishes cause kids are licking and touching everything and they're always having a runny nose. You know, you understand. So the, that exposure,
Brittany (14:18.592)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Brittany (14:31.568)
Yes, I'm flicking every...
David Valenzuela (14:33.574)
I know. Well, and you know what? We're all, we were all sick too. Like I, I lived with my best friend when I first moved back to California, you know, our, my little godson, Chase was in Montessori. And I, we, I said we all had runny noses for like five years because what are you doing? So that is our exposure to that is what builds your immune system. And so that's, that actually is giving you the ability to have a robust response to being exposed to bacteria, viruses, things like that.
So the same thing can be said for our topical microbiome. So there's a couple things in this, and I'll explain it like as top level, ask me whatever nerdy questions you want, I'll get into it. But your topical microbiome is directly related to your skin health. So what we know now, so there's been, we're 20 some years of research, but really the topical microbiome really started being studied in 2014.
Brittany (15:15.754)
Okay.
Brittany (15:24.26)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (15:32.17)
in the world of dermatology. And as I started researching it, I had a light bulb moment one day, I was like, oh my God, this is like, can I apply for Nobel Prize? I had the understanding of psoriasis, dermatitis, acne, eczema, these are all topical skin conditions that are directly related to microbiome health. So.
Brittany (15:32.388)
Okay.
Brittany (15:43.385)
I'm sorry.
Brittany (15:58.136)
Soon.
David Valenzuela (15:59.586)
There's a whole host of things as we know, whether it's medication, whether it's diet, whether it's stress, whether it's exposure to over stripping products or an extremely dry environment, heated, cool, you know, we're always in these controlled environments now which are not great. You know, coming from 87% humidity in Georgia, my hair is already standing up as crazy. If you're watching this on YouTube, my hair is already crazy and textured and standing up. I go back to Georgia, I guys I lived in Georgia for a long time, I was like, woo!
But you know what I noticed, Brittany, is my skin. My skin, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't look like a wrinkled hag in Georgia because there's so much moisture in the air.
Brittany (16:35.812)
Oh my god, but my skin hates Georgia.
David Valenzuela (16:38.73)
Well, okay, so perfect example. So those, so there's so many factors. So when you're talking about, you know, as an esthetician you say, don't wash your face with extremely hot water, right? You're gonna, it's too much, you're exacerbating inflammation. All of the things, the water, the moisture content, your sun exposure, your diet, everybody's microbiome.
Brittany (16:42.503)
Yeah, and I think that's worse here.
Brittany (16:54.509)
We'll be right back.
Brittany (17:00.61)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (17:06.426)
internally and externally are unique to them. It's literally as detailed as like your fingerprint. There is no one size fits all approach. So there are things we can do and there are ingredients that we can use. Do I even have one on my desk? So what I end up doing, Brittany, every time I do a podcast or something, I have products on my desk and then if I'm out of something, I will run and grab it and do something else. And there's not even a Fidoactive on my desk. Why would there be one? I'll bring how somebody bring one in.
Brittany (17:12.361)
Wow.
Brittany (17:33.673)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (17:35.01)
But what we understand now about the microbiome is that you have, we'll call it negative bacteria. So here is where it gets very, very interesting. C. acnes bacteria, the part of the ecosystem of your skin is C. acnes bacteria. For a long time we call it P. acnes bacteria, which are shortened terms because people can't pronounce the words correctly, but it's C. acnes bacteria that we know now is what creates acne. Your C. acnes bacteria and staph bacteria are actually both
Brittany (17:44.298)
Okay.
Brittany (17:59.588)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (18:04.686)
keeping each other in check. So if you have an over proliferation of staph bacteria, it's overtaking the C. acnes bacteria, and you can develop a staph infection. It flips the other way too. You can have a proliferation of C. acnes bacteria overtaking the staph bacteria, and you will then develop, if you're predisposed, you can develop acne, or one of the other host of skin conditions. So the belief system that all bacteria is bad,
Brittany (18:07.404)
Okay.
Brittany (18:14.664)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Brittany (18:27.64)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (18:34.382)
is actually not true. It's actually what's keeping your skin healthy. It's keeping a balance and keeping viruses and things that would affect you negatively away. So what we know now is that there and you're going to see it's just going to continue. It's not ever going to stop now that we have this understanding different types of pre and probiotics that can be applied topically to really help the wellness of the skin overall. And it's really exciting, Brittany, because the not only
Brittany (18:35.949)
Right.
Brittany (18:44.849)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (19:03.382)
Can you keep things eczema, dermatitis, acne, you know, all the conditions that are generally either medication, autoimmune, genetic, predisposed to some of these things, there's going to be a different treatment methodology for how we move forward with some of these things. Generally for people, you know, you suffering from eczema yourself, steroid creams, things that suppress the immune system a little bit to say it's being overreactive. I think we're going to see a whole host of changes there.
Brittany (19:19.876)
Okay.
Brittany (19:30.66)
Hmm.
David Valenzuela (19:32.738)
The thing that people always pay attention to is that when your microbiome is healthy, you age slower. That's what everybody listens to. So forget that you cleared your acne or that your dermatitis went away or all that. It slows down the aging process. And whenever we talk about this in a podcast, YouTube, whatever, that's what people go back and listen to like, wait, what? I'm gonna age slower? So you're...
Brittany (19:40.352)
Huh. Hehehehe.
Brittany (19:55.012)
Yeah, like, wait, what?
David Valenzuela (20:01.226)
So take it one step deeper now. So your microbiome is directly related to your barrier function. So when we talk about impaired barrier function, you are also impairing your microbiome function. You need a healthy, as we know, like 70 plus percent of your cells in your body are water, but for your skin, topically, you need a healthy mix of both water and lipids to actually maintain healthy barrier function.
Brittany (20:15.768)
Okay.
Brittany (20:28.996)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (20:29.026)
and your microbiome is thriving off the sebum in the skin. So where we get into issues with acne, as we know, you're an acne expert, you get it, face reality trained, you understand. When the bacteria is trapped, so it gets down into the poropholical and there's a sebum that traps it in there, this is what triggers an inflammatory response. The body says, this bacteria is not supposed to be here.
Brittany (20:32.437)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Brittany (20:49.933)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (20:56.504)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (20:56.51)
So we know things like obviously proper exfoliation, chemical exfoliation, a benzoyl peroxide treatment product, benzoyl peroxide, which we should talk about that too, because that just heated up a whole firestorm in the last couple of weeks, but oh my God. But basically you guys, it's converting down into oxygen and delivering oxygen down into the follicle, which is then causing the inside of the pore follicle to shed and then also that bacteria can't live in oxygen.
Brittany (21:10.592)
It sure has.
Brittany (21:22.478)
Right?
David Valenzuela (21:25.822)
So it therefore mitigates the bacteria that's causing acne. Interesting thing, Brittany, that people, um, don't necessarily understand is that people will say, and it's just education, right? They're like, Oh, well, benzoyl peroxide is anti-inflammatory. And I'm like, well, actually it's not. It does produce a little inflammatory response. So you have to know how to prescribe it correctly. And when you are prescribing a BPO product to your customers, you guys,
Brittany (21:25.889)
right?
Brittany (21:43.776)
Yeah, it's not. Ha ha ha.
David Valenzuela (21:54.934)
You need to also make sure that you're adding in a bunch of antioxidants. Um, it depletes the skin of L-glutathione. I put L-glutathione in our vitamin C product to put those beneficial components back into the skin matrix to keep your microbiome healthy. So it is a, you have to know how to prescribe it correctly. You got to make sure that you're not over-drying the skin. You're not stripping the skin. The idea is to maintain the health of the skin while the client is clearing. So that's kind of a.
of top line CNN version of microbiome health, there literally is the testing, the collection methods and how many actual bacteria on the skin keeps being debated, but it's probably in the billions. Like high, high numbers. Crazy. It's a crazy ecosystem.
Brittany (22:36.74)
Okay.
Brittany (22:44.568)
So is microbiome the name for the ecosystem? Is that what that word means? Okay, because I've heard people use it, and I'm like, for a minute, David, I thought it was completely made up. I was like, this is just another fad of people saying, you know what I mean? Like, they made it up.
David Valenzuela (22:49.322)
Yes. Yup.
David Valenzuela (23:03.05)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Brittany (23:04.132)
terminology of something and they're like, it's the microbiome and now we have to do this and I was just like, oh my gosh, again, you guys stop paying attention to all these trends.
David Valenzuela (23:15.202)
the shiny objects of the world. So the reason why, so I, part of my exposure to the industry, Brittany, and I feel so, I don't even know, I was just going through life like on the magic carpet ride, but getting to work with founders of companies, the, I've been, so it's not all fairies and rainbows and like, you know, there are moments as an entrepreneur you have to make difficult decisions because you are in charge, it is your own money, like you are your brand, but the.
Brittany (23:17.208)
Yes.
Brittany (23:26.948)
I'm sorry.
Brittany (23:41.926)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (23:43.582)
I think one of the takeaways that Jane Raymond and Jane, the founders, husband and wife, Dermalogica, they were never interested in trends. And some of those things, because, you know, we were, I was like, we see E. ferulica taken off, you know, from skin, pseudocals, which is like, I don't know, 100, almost $190 now for one ounce of vitamin C, L ascorbic acid, everybody knows it. You know, they filed for one of the first patents on stabilized vitamin C and you know, people
Brittany (23:51.265)
Yes.
Brittany (24:06.253)
Yep.
David Valenzuela (24:10.898)
lovingly referred to it as hot dog water and all the YouTubers. And it's just, it's crazy because it is a very expensive product. We were challenging, like we need to release a vitamin C product. So not Ray and Jane sold the company in 2015. Unilever, I believe within two years of owning it, of course, launched a whole bunch of vitamin C products. You can't negate the fact that vitamin C is beneficial in skin, just like a retinoid or vitamin A, like the science is there, the data is there, the efficacy is there.
Brittany (24:23.917)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (24:37.866)
So when I started looking at the, and I know all the trends, I know the stem cell trends and the epidermal growth factor, like I know all that I've been around to see all of it. This is part of our body and our health, and it is a component of who every individual human being is. So we're not going to like a year from now, like no one's gonna be talking about the microbiome. Interesting thing, so as I'm doing the...
Brittany (24:47.424)
Yes.
Brittany (24:56.524)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (25:04.67)
As I'm researching this and as I'm researching, you know, your gut health directly related to your overall wellbeing, we understand that there's more research now into your mental health, a lot of your immune system, a lot of your serotonin production, everyone thinks everything's happening in the brain. It's actually happening in your gut. And so, you know, as you know, all the drugs and things that we prescribe or that get prescribed for acne.
Brittany (25:22.736)
Hmm? Hmm...
David Valenzuela (25:31.342)
They're very disruptive to not only the microbiome in the gut and it doesn't matter if it's antibiotic or isotretinoin known as Accutane. These things are disrupting the health, not just the health of the gut and your microbiome in your gut, but also your total body, which ends up being topical. So things that are like these things, like why do I wanna support my microbiome? Well, your microbiome, like something like vitamin C, you guys, it never actually reaches the skin.
Doesn't matter how much you ingest the body uses it all for internal function. It never actually reaches the skin topically, which is why we apply vitamin C topically to boost the efficacy of our sunscreens, promote that collagen production, high antioxidant value. You have to apply that topically. You're never going to get that internally. So it's just things that support the microbiome. So the very interesting thing at Brittany, every time you wash your face, okay, or your body, your hair, anything, you're disrupting your microbiome.
So there's some very interesting research that just actually came out fourth quarter last year about ingredients that actually put the microbiome back into homeostasis the fastest. And one of those ingredients was high molecular weight hyaluronic acid. Helping the skin snap back in. We know hyaluronic acid is a hero ingredient. We know there's multiple weights. I have a multiple molecular weight vitamin C, it's called C21.
Brittany (26:46.836)
Okay.
Brittany (26:52.717)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (26:57.214)
it actually puts the skin back in homeostasis the fastest. So when you're thinking about your home care routine, whether you're spraying a toner, like this is my, I have to, I can't not spray this all throughout the day because it's so dry here. You want to keep that moisture in the skin, antioxidants, obviously, high molecular rate, hyaluronic acid, those are things that are going to get your microbiome back in health. And as you know from, you know, practicing in San Diego, and you know, you had more humidity there when you're treating acne.
Brittany (27:09.016)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (27:17.144)
Hmm.
David Valenzuela (27:23.786)
generally your acne clients are not interested in more moisture. It's a little bit of a education, you know, about training people like, you're still going to need to use a moisturizer. We still need to use SPF. We don't want to over strip your skin. We're going to cleanse gently, but yeah, you're, you are disturbing the microbiome through cleansing, through any kind of toner application, through chemical exfoliation, through BPO application, it is adjusting the microbiome. And
Brittany (27:27.713)
Right.
Brittany (27:40.356)
Great.
Brittany (27:47.437)
Huh.
David Valenzuela (27:53.786)
The key thing as an esthetician when you're actually clearing acne to look at is where your client is at in the clearing process and understanding how to adjust your products accordingly so that you're not putting them... Acne is already an inflammatory skin condition. We don't want to add extra inflammation to the skin. Traditionally, without postgraduate education, people think we have to really dry the skin out because it does need oil to produce acne, right?
Brittany (28:19.182)
Right.
David Valenzuela (28:23.166)
Well, if you can balance, it's all about balance, bringing the skin back to balance. If you can balance wherever your client is at. And I always say one size fits one because it's true. Like there are new two where you guys skin is like your fingerprint. It's literally it's your ecosystem, your microbiome, your internal. It's all individual. It's never going to be a one size fits all thing, which is why proactive. I think now that's been sold maybe four or five times is not the answer. And you know,
Women are the fastest growing onset of adult acne. And I'm sorry, they don't need to be using proactive.
Brittany (28:54.017)
Mm-hmm.
No, no, they do not. I mean, come on, we all had our proactive horror stories for those of us who've had acne, you know?
David Valenzuela (29:05.138)
Yes. And, and the, those clients today. So remember it was a three step system, right? It was like scrub the shit out of the skin. Sorry, cussing, um, scrub the crap out of the skin, um, alcohol based toners, and then, you know, a benzoyl peroxide application. And you're like, where's your moisturizer? Where's your SPF? And if you see, if you're listening to this and you see, and you ask your client, you know, tell me about all the products you use. And you've had a proactive user from the nineties.
Brittany (29:15.456)
Good day.
Brittany (29:22.18)
That was it.
David Valenzuela (29:34.678)
They generally appear older. They didn't, they blew their face up. They overexfoliated it. Um, and they weren't using any SPF. And now for all those people back in the day, SPFs were really at the elementary stage and I get it. They were greasy. The raw materials that actually make SPF, they're generally greasy in nature. So, you know, we have our physical chemical blends of things, but back then. Typically sunscreens were very oily and gross and nobody with acne was like, I'm not putting that on my face. Absolutely not.
Brittany (29:52.324)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (30:04.054)
So I understand it, but those days are over. And you know, interesting story, Brittany, Proacta was actually, so Katie and Kathy, the dermatologist that founded it, they sold it to Guthrie Rinker, which was the infomercial company, which was actually based down the street from our offices. It was so weird, I drove by Guthrie Rinker for years. And then it was sold again to Nestle, which everyone thinks is chocolate milk in the US. It's a huge company.
Brittany (30:14.308)
Okay.
Brittany (30:18.948)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (30:30.466)
Then it was sold to Galderma, which is the same company that owns a lot of injectables, and now it's been sold again. So, you know, it's still a very well-known brand. They still advertise. I still look at all their stuff, but we just have too much knowledge now about what's going on in skin. We have a better understanding of how to treat it more effectively, and it's just, it's old technology. Sorry, Proactiv.
Brittany (30:34.532)
Okay.
Brittany (30:53.028)
Yeah, I mean, we all hate it. That's not anything new to the esthetician world. OK, so I had a couple of questions for you for some of the things that you said. So essentially, you've already kind of said this, but I wanted to kind of help people for, if maybe this is the first time hearing about microbiome, kind of wrap their brain around it. So I think more and more, especially in the acne community, people understand that barrier repair is...
super important because if the bear is not repaired, then you can't, it's not gonna, nothing's gonna work. So that's essentially, you're repairing the micro-biome.
David Valenzuela (31:19.072)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (31:24.846)
Correct. So your microbiome in order to function correctly has to have the healthy mix of lipids. So it's more so, I mean, you can use the, you know, our cells are so much water that obviously we need a version of moisture and that is, you know, moisture we usually think of hydration as water. And we think of like moisture, moisturizers as like more oil or lipid based things. You need that healthy mix in order to have healthy barrier function.
Brittany (31:32.836)
Okay.
Brittany (31:42.02)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (31:46.564)
Am I frozen or are you frozen? Oh no.
David Valenzuela (31:53.794)
for your microbiome to work. If the skin is too dry, so what I'm seeing, Brittany, is when a client over-dries their acne kids, they are prone to more post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation. The skin is not functioning healthy because the barrier is impaired. The microbiome is not working correctly, and you're more prone to PAH when you've over-dried the skin, when it's healing from an acne lesion. It takes longer. Those dark spots that show up, especially on
Brittany (32:21.892)
Mmm.
David Valenzuela (32:22.87)
higher Fitzpatrick types. If you've overdried the skin, you will notice that those take longer to go away because the skin has been impaired along the way. It can't heal itself correctly.
Brittany (32:32.388)
Wow, that makes complete sense.
David Valenzuela (32:36.03)
It's huge. So I get to watch this on a, I call it the 30,000 foot view, you know, because I've seen it in a global, you know, there's things you can do, can't do in Australia that we can do in the US, can't do in Canada, can't do in the US, Europe has different regulation. And I see how people have treated acting on a global platform. And it just gives me all this information. But I'm also watching, you know, our pros across the country send me pictures, help me with this case. What do you think's going on here?
Brittany (32:47.972)
Thanks for watching.
David Valenzuela (33:03.046)
And nine times out of 10, if somebody has been overdried through the clearing process, they can experience some PAH.
Brittany (33:10.5)
I used to as a teen, I've always had acne as a teen and a young adult and I always had PAH or red after. I didn't ever have like pigmentation but I had just red marks that would just take a long time to get rid of. And of course I was drying my skin out to try to get rid of the acne. I was very oily. I never wanted to put any oil back into my skin, right? So it was the typical teen stuff. One of the things that...
David Valenzuela (33:18.539)
Yeah, PIE, yeah.
David Valenzuela (33:26.739)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (33:31.04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brittany (33:37.38)
Maybe think of kind of you were talking about probiotics in the skin And maybe think of one of my daughter's friends is having like a lot of severe eczema and rashes and she her mom's like I want her to have Probiotics in her skin. So I'm gonna do a yogurt bath and I was like that isn't a thing But can you explain to some I know I was like that's not how skin work But how would you if someone who's like, okay, I want to have probiotics in the skin What does that look like from a product standpoint?
David Valenzuela (34:05.73)
So there's a new ingredient technology. So I'll give you a couple things. So I'm not the trend person and I'm not the, just because of raw materials introduced, I'm gonna throw it into a product and start marketing it like this because the raw materials, you guys, raw materials are all the ingredients that go into your specific products. They advertise and market to brands just like brands advertise and market to you.
So they make, and they can make a lot of really crazy claims because it's not being sold directly to the consumer. So a lot of it gets into the gray area of sales, changing cellular function and stuff, which is technically drugs, which they can all get away with because they're not, it's not being sold to a consumer. So you have to do your own diligent research. I look for efficacy and I look for some time. So things have to be on the market for a while and have some really good efficacy before we report them back and say, this does this. So,
Brittany (35:00.1)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (35:00.194)
To answer your question, there are ingredients. So my number one selling serum, the first product we introduced, it is lactobacillus ferment based, okay? So there's a whole family of lactobacillus. There's different, there's lysate, there's different versions of it. We use a vegan version of it because I'm not using any animal-derived ingredients. And what this does is it promotes the healthy bacteria on the skin. So keeping things in balance. So this is like,
Brittany (35:09.092)
Okay.
Brittany (35:27.844)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (35:29.49)
If you think about taking a probiotic for your stomach, for your gut, you're basically helping your putting healthy or you're feeding healthy bacteria in the skin that helps with digestion. Things are going to ease the process through the gut. And digestion is another thing that's there's acne digestive enzymes are actually can be helpful for gut health issues that also can help with your acne if you're not digesting your things correctly, or your body's in an inflamed state from foods that you're eating.
Brittany (35:40.676)
Uh huh.
Brittany (35:53.604)
Bye.
Hmm.
David Valenzuela (35:56.582)
Same thing for topical. So as we start including probiotics, prebiotics in topical skincare, you're just better supporting that ecosystem. So the skin can essentially function optimally and heal itself. It is a crazy concept, Brittany, because we traditional Western medicine
Brittany (36:07.332)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (36:17.65)
In the United States, we love to treat symptoms. We love to give spironolactone to women and say, oh, we got to mitigate your hormones. We need to take the androgens down, which is all directly related to oil production. And you're like, what? We're just, what? We're doing all this stuff with hormones just so we can take oil production down? Like small-minded in my opinion, in my opinion, I have physicians come for me all the time. Sorry. Antibiotics. You know, you and I'm sure have seen the clients that come that have been on antibiotics for multiple years.
Brittany (36:28.42)
Great.
Brittany (36:39.108)
Yeah.
Brittany (36:46.852)
Yep.
David Valenzuela (36:46.91)
You guys, you are not supposed to be on antibiotics for multiple years. It is not supposed to happen. We now have a prevalence of antibiotic resistance. You don't ever want to be in a position where you've consumed so many antibiotics in your life that you've built up an ecosystem that's now resistant to antibiotics and you have an infection that won't clear because of your resistance. It's not okay. And I know that the world of dermatology, they, we have a prevalence of over prescription in the dermatology world in the U S specifically for acne.
It's a whole nother podcast, but also the Accutane. So we prescribe, or Accutane gets prescribed for to take down the oil production. If you don't have oil in the skin, you can't have acne formation. But if you think of all of the body functions, your lubrication of your joints, the lubrication of your eyes, your entire body, your skin needs lipids to stay healthy. So when you're shutting off all that activity to take care of
I understand you guys, it's not, some people do need a medical therapeutic. If it's all the way down their middle, their back and their shoulders, you're gonna need a medical therapeutic. But those are like less than 10% of the cases in the US. It's such a small amount. But the therapeutic gets thrown at it so much. You are disrupting your microbiome, not only externally, but also internally. You have busted all of your microbiome function with one of those therapeutics. And so now we have
Brittany (38:11.812)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (38:14.014)
information about gentle cleansing probiotics, putting things back into the skin to make it healthy again. The you know, phytoactive clearing serum is actually there's 21 actives in it. So there's a sebum regulator in it, there is a pigment suppressor in it, which is very, very has a lot of data and efficacy behind it. But the lactobacillus ferment in addition to promoting that healthy bacteria
Brittany (38:26.372)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (38:39.342)
calms inflammation in the skin, calms redness in the skin, calms down that redness that's just occurring from angry acne inflamed skin, calms all that back down. And when the skin is in its healthiest state, that's when the aging process slows down, which just happens to be a side effect of good treatments.
Brittany (38:58.5)
I mean, I'm gonna have to like go back and listen to this a couple times because there's so much information, but it, I, I mean it makes complete sense, especially for those of you who treat acne and you've seen it, you've seen if their skin, whenever I sell skin care program to someone, I'm always like the actives, I'm like, this is like if we were going to the gym.
David Valenzuela (39:04.451)
Yeah.
Brittany (39:20.196)
and working out really hard. And then the moisturizer, the hydrators, the SPF, like this is the water, this is the stretching. Like if you went to run a marathon and all you did was run and you never drank water, you never stretched, your legs would be in so much pain, you couldn't do it, it's not sustainable. So it's the same, we understand that concept in other parts of our body, but the skin is where, I think the years of miseducation is really kind of what's been challenging.
David Valenzuela (39:22.21)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (39:35.543)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (39:40.95)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (39:49.414)
It is. So the research is it's never ending. You guys, anybody with a Google search, you can, you know, look up information. I look at the American Academy of Dermatology frequently. I'm a subscriber to JAMA, which is the Journal of American Medicine. I look at cosmetics and toiletries. Like I'm very, I don't like to take information. So I also as a postgraduate, I have
David Valenzuela (40:19.322)
why can't I think of the word right now? You get a, as an alumni, you get access to the, to the digital research, which I think is amazing because sometimes Brittany, you'll see people, they'll come out and there were some people swinging a few months ago about low molecular weight, hyaluronic acid, and it was getting very, very heated. And I love it. I'm like, you guys, do you do the research, like come to the table with your research. But some of the studies that were in the research were from 1954. And I'm like, you know what?
Brittany (40:21.412)
And there it is. One.
Brittany (40:43.108)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (40:48.682)
It's 2024. And one of the beautiful things about having access to a college library is you can search your parameters based off of your time. So I try to go back and pull information from the past decade, like pull current, like what are the most recent studies? I also have the option to select peer-reviewed studies. Cosmetics and toiletries does a great job of peer-reviewed studies, which means there's been multiple I's on the research.
Brittany (40:50.02)
Yep.
Brittany (41:03.108)
Yeah.
Brittany (41:09.892)
Hmm
Brittany (41:16.324)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (41:16.522)
so that people can have a differing opinion or say this is not great or this is a, it is just a research point and you having a better understanding of that will help you in your mindset for treating acne and you will, it's just, people are gonna have breakthroughs, Brittany, when they listen to this, because they're gonna be going, oh my God, that makes perfect sense and they're gonna go, well, wait a minute, should I not be using this? Should I not be using that? And there are some questionable ingredients that are available.
Brittany (41:41.668)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (41:45.598)
in the aesthetic space today. And you guys, the you know, we love to do chemical exfoliation with our acne clients. And you there's different ways to go about doing that. You know, your cells are shedding up to five times faster when you have acne. So you want to address the cell shedding, you want to address the bacteria, you want to address the oil production, you got to address all of those things in their totality, and not just go crazy after like we're just gonna
Brittany (41:47.684)
Yeah.
Brittany (41:59.684)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (42:13.166)
peel the crap out of the space and like that by the way is there's a researcher at Harvard, his name is David Sinclair. He talks about adversity memetics. And it is a it's a high science term, but essentially every time you're peeling the skin or you're doing you're throwing adversity at it so that it can come back and heal a cold plunge sitting in the sauna.
Brittany (42:14.916)
Great!
Brittany (42:25.38)
Okay.
Brittany (42:34.052)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (42:38.458)
long term intermittent fasting, those are all considered adverse pneumatics. And I'm studying that space and being very close to it. Because we know diet is you know, if you're gonna have a crappy diet, need a bunch of dairy and a bunch of sugar and stuff, you're going to trigger an insulin response. Guess what that triggers you guys more oil production. If you have acne, you're taking a bunch of inflammatory foods and you have an inflammatory skin condition, more inflammation, more acne, like it is not just your I'm going to do a peel and I'm going to get the skin clear.
Brittany (42:42.052)
Okay.
Brittany (43:06.724)
Right, no, it's not. Yeah, and you know, I think that is a generational thing too. I think that people who are estheticians in the 90s, you would do the strongest chemical peel out there. You wanted their skin to be coming off in sheets, versus a very gentle peel that, you know, maybe they could go a little bit of roughness, a slight peeling, but it's not like they can't go outside for three days. That was the...
David Valenzuela (43:07.154)
It's looking at the individual as a whole.
David Valenzuela (43:19.767)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (43:23.988)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (43:33.77)
And you know, we're we, we recommend so you know, with the way that we formulated our appeals, that clients come in as frequently as every two weeks, or three weeks. And then you know, I have that I have some practitioners downtown LA and they're like, David, you know how much how hard it is to drive around LA like I got to really treat the skin. I'm like, all right, you're gonna do some more appeal passes on the skin. They've got a little bit more time to recover in between their treatments. Of course, yes, treat their clients to treat your clients where they're at.
Brittany (43:42.148)
Yep.
David Valenzuela (44:00.002)
but you don't have to be over aggressive if they can come in on a more frequent basis. A little chemical exfoliation goes a long way.
Brittany (44:04.196)
Right.
Really does. And I have sensitive skin, I have eczema, so I can't do really strong stuff. And I found when I did the lighter stuff, my skin always responds so much better than a strong peel or whatever.
David Valenzuela (44:18.75)
You know interesting fact, Brittany, right now about, I was just reading this on the plane coming back from Atlanta, the world of dermatology has no actual definition for sensitive skin.
Brittany (44:30.212)
Really?
David Valenzuela (44:31.394)
There's literally not a technical definition of sensitive skin. And they literally, a bunch of dermatologists got together and they were like all trying to pound it out about sensitive skin and they would not come to an agreement on truly, even though you know that most, over 70% of consumers say, oh, I have sensitive skin. There's not a technical medical definition for what sensitive skin actually is. And we're sitting in 2024 going, what?
Brittany (44:44.644)
Really?
Brittany (44:49.86)
Great, great.
Brittany (44:57.284)
You're right people overuse it for sure people would always think I would think that oh you have reactive skin You're you put some in your skin you break out or whatever versus like my skin
David Valenzuela (44:59.712)
They do.
David Valenzuela (45:06.378)
And you can sensitized, yes. Well, and you, the sensitized skin versus sensitive skin, sensitized meaning you've done, you've over-clenched, you've over-exfoliated, you've sensitized your skin versus having sensitive skin where everything you put on your skin, you might be reactive to it. They were trying to clarify what the, just trying to come up with a definition so that people could come in and then they...
Brittany (45:17.124)
Great. Over. Yes.
Brittany (45:25.028)
Yes, apparently sensitive.
David Valenzuela (45:33.122)
we're talking about when their clients come in and they're like, I can't use any of this product. I can't use product. I can't use product. They would just put them in it. And I'm forgetting the term right now, you guys, it's early in the morning in California, but there's a term that they put them in that was basically like, it will come to me. It was something about the over usage of cosmetic product, but they just lumped everybody into that category. And I was like, okay, this is interesting that even in 2024, we don't have a actual definition for what sensitive skin is.
Brittany (45:43.172)
Yes, I'm sorry.
Brittany (45:53.796)
Yes.
Brittany (46:00.644)
wild. I also think I'm a highly sensitive person so I think that just comes out on my everything. Everything is sensitive.
David Valenzuela (46:07.666)
It is and you know what the skin you guys it's your it's you gentle it's gentle we need to be gentle with our skin it's like a Katie says it's a two sided organ you know it's protecting things from coming out as much as protecting things from coming in. And you're the more gentle and caring and respect that you can give your skin the better it's going to treat you and you're not you know we remember the whole thing about sulfates when sulfates were all a big rage like.
Brittany (46:19.172)
Thank you.
David Valenzuela (46:36.874)
shampoos and stripping hair color and you know, sulfates got this bad rap and then ordinary came out and they're like, we're launching a sulfate shampoo and sulfate and the reality is sulfates are not bad. If you are formulating correctly, I don't use them. I don't use them because people are like weirded out about it. But when a when a product was formulated with a high surfactant matrix or a high percentage of sulfates, you have all these corneosites tight junctions, their protein bonds in your skin and sulfates.
Brittany (46:38.308)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (47:06.134)
basically dissolve them. So then you have a lot of trans epidermal water loss, your skin is like dry and brands back in the day loved to use sulfates because then people use more moisturizer as a means of selling more product. But having an understanding as to like why. Now if you formulated a product with a very, very small percentage of sulfates, it probably would be effective and okay. But sulfates as a whole, you know, and it's going to be different for every skin type.
Brittany (47:08.484)
Okay.
Brittany (47:32.836)
Huh.
David Valenzuela (47:32.982)
But if you can avoid that and use, you know, a whole host of really general surfactants, you're going to be better off.
Brittany (47:39.492)
That just, wow, okay. No information. You can just delete.
David Valenzuela (47:42.394)
I know, you know what, we could geek out and nerd out on specific ingredients like gentle. We just, that's the name of the game, you guys, gentle. And your acne, what I see, Brittany, also, the reason we use meter dose pumps or air dose pumps and things is that I know everybody, consumers, especially acne clients believe more is better. So you're like, you're gonna take this, you're gonna use one pump of this serum or two pumps of the serum.
Brittany (47:49.38)
I will see you there.
Brittany (48:05.508)
Yes.
Brittany (48:09.796)
the baby.
David Valenzuela (48:12.07)
And they're like, Oh no, four to five pumps and you know, especially if someone's using a BPO or something, they're going to, they think it's going to get rid of their acting faster. They're just going to make their skin very angry, slow and steady, slow and steady, slow and steady.
Brittany (48:19.14)
Right.
Brittany (48:23.812)
100% okay, we're almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you some random questions Or I guess one random you mentioned the stem cell fat. I have I've heard very mixed Opinions, I'd love your take on topical stem cells
David Valenzuela (48:29.483)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (48:41.422)
Woo, this could get heated. Okay, you guys don't hate me, because I don't wanna, it's like be telling me, me telling people that there's no Santa Claus. So stem cells, okay, so there's a couple different ways that this gets marketed weird. So you'll hear stem cells from plants, okay? Stem cells from plants we've extracted, we've had this stem cell thing. And you know what, you guys, honestly, in all the research I've done, stem cells from plants are providing, maybe they have some calming attributes, maybe they have some antioxidant attributes.
Brittany (48:47.972)
I'm sorry.
David Valenzuela (49:10.978)
but stem cells, only your stem cells, you personally, there is some research for some umbilical cord stuff for like when you have a baby of storing those stem cells that those stem cells could be used for the injury of your child or potentially. So I actually, I'm close to this because I have a friend that actually worked for the company that represented this, that sold this product to people giving birth. They don't last forever. There's a very timeline, like about a decade.
Brittany (49:20.868)
Yep.
Brittany (49:26.34)
Yep.
Brittany (49:36.004)
Yep.
David Valenzuela (49:40.15)
that people could use them. But this whole idea of topical stem cell application, anytime I look at these formulas, Brittany, I go, you're gonna notice that there's usually peptides in the formulation as well. I think, not to call out brands, but SkinMedica was one of the first ones that came out with, it was called Condition Media, and it was supposed to be stem cells from, they say they're synthesized in a lab, but they were originally derived from the foreskin of a penis.
Brittany (49:51.204)
Okay? Okay.
Brittany (49:59.076)
Okay.
Brittany (50:08.196)
Uh-huh.
David Valenzuela (50:08.47)
And they were put into this media, created this whole thing. Well, it created such a backlash that Australia said, this product is not allowed in our country, even though it's been synthesized in a lab, the origination of where it came from. So now I go and I look at that. You guys may be familiar with it. If you're working in a Betty spa, TNS serum, go back and look at the ingredient deck and look at how many peptides are in that formula. And I can guarantee you that's what's doing the heavy lifting. It's got nothing to do with the condition media.
Brittany (50:11.812)
I don't know.
Brittany (50:18.66)
Okay.
Brittany (50:37.316)
So I guess my question with the stem cells that I had heard from someone who didn't product development for a skincare line was that stem cells will help grow anything on your skin, whether it's skin cancer or healthy skin cells.
David Valenzuela (50:46.028)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (50:53.954)
So there is, there's debate. So the same thing could be said for if you have a precancerous lesion and you're using a retinoid, something that is causing cell proliferation, cells to grow quicker. Technically that could be true for a cancerous lesion as well. You could accelerate the growth of that. The research is varying, Brittany, and...
Brittany (50:57.604)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (51:16.59)
because I know people are microneedling with these serums and like these stem cell serums and they're like, Oh my gosh, no, my clients have a lot of healing attributes from this product. It really, really works. And I, I questioned some of the science. It's really your personal stem cells for your personal body are literally the stem cells that actually, you know, we, I have a personal friend who had a, a stem cell transplant for cancer.
Brittany (51:19.076)
Great.
Brittany (51:28.996)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (51:43.802)
Um, and you know, you know, when you're looking for donors, like they have to find donors that are a match for, to make that happen and it saved your life. So this is a very high science situation. And also the way that stem cells are preserved in the medical space is not going into a product that's sitting on your shelf, that's not refrigerated or not. And I know there are some people out there that refrigerate the vials and stuff, but there probably is a little more efficacy to some other stuff, but topically applied stem cells. It's very interesting.
Brittany (51:50.692)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (52:13.59)
data that I'm not fully 100% behind as like advocating for. You know, we have growth factor peptides, we have retinoids, we have things that actually have more efficacy data behind them for creating change in the skin, whether you're, you know, there's peptides that will stimulate oil production, there's peptides that will mitigate oil production, tyrosinase inhibitors that will inhibit that enzyme process for melanin-performing or melanin-producing in the skin.
Brittany (52:17.252)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (52:42.486)
You've got retinoids that are cell proliferation, getting the cells to multiply faster. So those things have a better efficacy record than some of the other stuff. So I'm not a full, I'm not saying that there's not something that could exist that could possibly be the research that I've seen today. So far in 2024, I don't, I'm not fully behind it. I usually look at the deck and go, there's something else in that it's actually doing this function.
Brittany (52:52.644)
Thank you.
Brittany (53:07.268)
So you kind of just feel like the stem cell title on it is just more of a marketing term than it is. That's really what's working.
David Valenzuela (53:17.682)
I've seen, I've watched some really intelligent people in the industry, some doctors with brands talk about their products and the science behind what they're talking about makes sense, but not in the way that it's being applied. And you guys, this is all about education, right? So when you do your, just don't listen to me, go do your own research and look at it. The information for usually what is being explained to the aesthetic community is how
Brittany (53:32.164)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (53:38.148)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (53:46.73)
stem cells function, but you're looking at, did they do, what kind of a clinical trial happened? Was it in vitro, was it in a Petri dish, was it actually human skin, were there 30 people, were there 20 people that had a cosmetic appearance benefit? Once you start digging down on the science a little bit, Brittany, it starts to diffuse itself a little bit and it's okay, you know what, I'm not here to say that any brand is better or worse than another brand. I'm just saying that we have access to
Brittany (54:05.86)
I'm sorry.
David Valenzuela (54:16.374)
research. And that's where I come to the table and I go, you know what, that doesn't make any sense. And I have some very intelligent people that I refer to and that I follow and that I study and will ask a question to about it. And the stem cell thing is a hot topic.
Brittany (54:23.46)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (54:33.668)
Well, I mean, I do appreciate your, as a business owner, as a founder of a skincare company to be rooted in research, that you are looking at research first and foremost, and as the research changes, you'll make changes as well. You're not like, well, this is what sells, this is what sounds really cool, so this is what we're gonna say, even though we know it's really, this is what's happening, we're gonna go along with the trends. I think that that itself is incredible, I love that.
David Valenzuela (54:51.735)
Right.
David Valenzuela (55:03.69)
And I thank you, I appreciate that. So the thing about our industry is that as you know, 90 plus percent of our industry is focused on quote unquote anti-aging. And I refuse to use a term and I'm like, stop saying it people, we're all aging. I know there's brands out there saying, we can reverse age and age reversal. I'm like, stop saying that, we're all aging. So you can age slower. I call it intelligent aging or healthy aging. But the premise of our industry is really cosmostatical and making healthy skin healthier.
Brittany (55:23.14)
Yes.
Brittany (55:27.3)
Okay.
Brittany (55:33.668)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (55:33.742)
and or make it appear to be better. You know, we got a lot of silicones and primers are like, Oh, my skin looks great. Well, you just basically apply to makeup product. But as you know, Brittany, you have firsthand knowledge. At you can't play with acne. You cannot play with acne. You either produce products that get results. And people buy them again and again and again, if somebody is not going to get results with their acne, or it's not working for them. They're not buying that product again.
Brittany (55:41.508)
Hehehehe
Brittany (56:00.356)
No they are not.
David Valenzuela (56:00.61)
versus the rest of the industry that's just trying to make pretty people prettier, there's a perception in that, did I get a good night's sleep and I put that eye cream on the next morning, I'm like, oh my gosh, I look at what I, you know the drill. So with acne, you have to do the research and also being a professional brand and educating estheticians how to properly navigate the space. It is
Brittany (56:05.188)
Yeah.
Brittany (56:12.58)
Magic.
David Valenzuela (56:28.542)
It's not just, we're not just putting fluffy products out to the market. You've got to, you actually have to do the research, got to do the work. You're going to hear more and more and more about the microbiome health. It is not going away. It's not a trend dermatology is going to talk about it. And for eczema psoriasis, all these other skin conditions, Mark my words, there's going to be therapeutics that come out. They're going to be about supporting microbiome health. It's coming.
Brittany (56:47.46)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany (56:53.476)
I cannot wait. I know, I first heard about microbiome from my friend Sarah, who's one of, I know she is one of your clients. And I was like, yeah.
David Valenzuela (56:56.13)
Huge.
David Valenzuela (57:06.014)
Oh, Sarah in Washington. I love Sarah. Shout out to Sarah. She, Sarah was one of my very first course purchasers. Very first. She was that week that we released it and then we are, uh, beauty business summit. There was a hurricane that came through, so we were supposed to release it at that event. So she was very patient and I was like, Sarah, listen, I'm going to love on you as much as I can. And I thank you so much. She was so patient, but yeah, Sarah, I love her.
Brittany (57:14.788)
Was she? She's so s-
Brittany (57:24.324)
Everyone.
Brittany (57:34.34)
It was, yes, Mel D. Mel D is her last name, Sarah Mel D. And she anyways, but she was telling me that and I was like, because we met in person and I was like, Sarah, what is this? What are you talking about? But I'm so glad to learn more about it. And not again, not from a trend standpoint but from like the name of
David Valenzuela (57:46.992)
I know.
Brittany (57:54.692)
The microbiome to now I now understand it is the name of what I already knew about. It just is the best way of describing, the whole ecosystem is what we already inherently knew before we knew what that was.
David Valenzuela (58:05.356)
Yes.
Yes, and it's everywhere on your body. It's not just your face. And there's, you know, there's different research because you have different things, different bacteria that live in different parts of the body. I know it sounds the crotch area, the armpit area, like there's different bacteria is living, but like there's certain things that live on the upper half of your body that don't live like on your legs. It's very, very interesting. And it's, you know, there's, it's, I believe from what I can gather from, it's about sebaceous activity.
Brittany (58:12.004)
Yeah.
Brittany (58:19.812)
Nope.
Brittany (58:29.316)
Huh.
Brittany (58:36.932)
Okay.
David Valenzuela (58:36.958)
and like, you know, the palms of your hands are gonna have like not a lot of space activity, just like your legs and your feet. So that would make sense why there's different bacteria on different areas of the body. But the idea is that we wanna keep it in homeostasis, keep it healthy, and then we can keep a lot of skin conditions at bay.
Brittany (58:42.948)
Yep.
Brittany (58:51.428)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it's so interesting about the antibiotics because of course I grew up in the 90s where we got antibiotics all the time for everything, right? The doctors just gave it to us for everything. And.
David Valenzuela (59:01.479)
I mean... Yes!
Brittany (59:03.94)
I was recently my daughter knew the doctor because I should pink eye and we were the doctor they're looking in her ears and like oh my gosh she's an ear infection which she wasn't complaining about she didn't she wasn't like in pain she wasn't it wasn't hurting her sleep and the doctor was like we've changed our stance on antibiotics and we only give them if the child is physically in pain and really does need antibiotics she's like I'll write you a prescription but only get it if you feel like she really needs it it will probably
David Valenzuela (59:24.639)
Interesting.
Brittany (59:33.894)
that you know if she's in pain of course we've given them to her but you know it was just such an interesting she's like yeah we've learned how it can really wreak havoc on the on small children's bodies that they don't really need it we don't want to give it to them and it was the first doctor that had told me that not that we she's really been on antibiotics before but it was such an interesting thing because normally you know ear infection antibiotics is like what you do no matter what right and so it was really refreshing actually to hear that from a doctor
David Valenzuela (59:44.139)
Yes.
David Valenzuela (01:00:01.802)
love that because we have a better understanding of the immune system now. And you know what else? There's interesting studies, Brittany, about babies that are delivered vaginally versus the cesarean section. And there's a whole, again, the ecosystem, the microbiome, when the baby is born naturally, the baby is gathering things through the delivery. I don't want to get too graphic, but there are actually things that are going on that's actually helping the baby build their immune system.
on their way out, so to speak. So now when a baby is born cesarean, they will actually pack the baby with some of those fluids and things, pat the baby down, because there are studies saying that these babies are healthier than when they're not being exposed to this bacteria to start building their immune system. So it's just, it is, it's not a fad, it's not a trend, it's part of who we are, we're understanding how the body works and how the skin works and how to most efficiently treat that.
Brittany (01:00:44.996)
Yeah.
Brittany (01:00:50.308)
Mm-hmm.
David Valenzuela (01:01:00.81)
And everybody wants to look great. You know, we, our brand, we have one, our literally our model for our entire brand is confidence. It's confidence, springing, restoring confidence for your clients and restoring confidence in aestheticians, aesthetic providers on how to effectively treat acne confidence. One word, that's it. Yeah. Simple.
Brittany (01:01:00.836)
Yep.
Brittany (01:01:08.388)
Hmm.
Brittany (01:01:15.46)
in that way.
I love it. I absolutely love it. That is wonderful and I would say that it completely aligns with you and what you believe in. So I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for coming on and teaching us so much. And again, I said I'm going to have to, we'll listen back to edit it and I'll listen to it multiple times just to learn everything that you said. There's so many great nuggets in here.
David Valenzuela (01:01:28.822)
Yes, yes, yes.
David Valenzuela (01:01:40.812)
Yeah.
David Valenzuela (01:01:44.85)
I mean, so much information and you know, we could have like a three hour like webinar about it and I could be showing slides and like show the bacteria on the skin when you actually apply but it's we got to have it in sound bites, right? You got to take a little bit of it. And you know, at the end of the day, everybody, you guys, I just encourage everybody, we don't know one's really teaching in the aesthetic community about doing research. And I see people type in and all these aesthetic forums, like they'll ask a question and I'm like, you know what, don't ask for opinions.
Brittany (01:01:57.796)
Yes.
Brittany (01:02:13.22)
Right.
David Valenzuela (01:02:13.43)
Don't go in and ask for people's opinions. Go and actually spend 15 minutes. Everybody has access to a lot of information through the American Academy of Dermatology. Everybody can research the National Institute, the NIH, the National Institute for Health. You can go and find a lot of really cool information and get a couple articles on a certain topic. Don't just read one thing and be like, that's the law. Look for peer-reviewed information where multiple eyes have been on it. Multiple people have researched it.
read the two articles and then go, you know what? I'm making an educated, I now have an educated opinion about what this is based off the research that I've done. So that's all, you know, it's just, we're just making ourselves smarter every day.
Brittany (01:02:51.204)
Right.
Brittany (01:02:54.948)
Yeah, not research is on a Facebook forum.
David Valenzuela (01:02:58.282)
Exactly. And again, you know what? There are some very smart people. There are some smart people that have done the research and post the research, but that is not the norm.
Brittany (01:03:06.66)
And that's also not the authority of all, they know everything.
David Valenzuela (01:03:12.542)
Right, so that's when, so if you guys, if you ever see something or you see an esthetician post something or a brand post something or a doctor post something, it doesn't mean that you still can't go and do the research behind it. Like the research I was looking at about that whole hyaluronic acid debacle thing, and I, you know, one of the articles was from 1954. I'm like, I can guarantee you that there's newer research and we're not just using low molecular weight hyaluronic acid by as a singular use ingredient. It's usually blended with other things like
Brittany (01:03:43.332)
Yeah, we're not, we're not doing six year old research, okay? That's not what we use anymore. If you're interested in David's brand and his skincare line, I will have all information in the show notes, in this episode so you can click through and see if you want to be interested in looking at his products and being one of the his pros. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful line.
David Valenzuela (01:03:43.631)
Come on, let's everybody calm down.
David Valenzuela (01:03:50.41)
Exactly, exactly.
Brittany (01:04:08.996)
that would help anyone's business beyond what we already currently know about acne.
David Valenzuela (01:04:14.242)
Absolutely, thank you. Yeah, trywish.com is the easiest way to find us. Super easy, easy to remember. All the information's there.
Brittany (01:04:20.932)
Great, thank you so much David. Thank you for being here. Thanks for teaching us. I'll have to have you come back and teach more. It'll be like a thing with David. What else is he gonna teach us today? Hehehe.
David Valenzuela (01:04:34.538)
will absolutely come back and I'm excited you're coming on too for a Wish podcast coming up here next week. So I have actually two more recordings today and I've got two on Monday and then you next Friday. So we're going to load up the deck again.
Brittany (01:04:46.66)
Here we go.
David Valenzuela (01:04:48.726)
Here we go. So thank you for having me. I appreciate you. I appreciate your time and that you contribution to the acne community. It's super important and needed.
Brittany (01:04:56.452)
video.
Thank you.
